Tuesday 13 December 2011
Monday 5 December 2011
Monday 28 November 2011
LAUGHING HANDS INTERVIEW
Interview with Gordon Harvey, Laughing Hands - October, 2011
How did you meet the other members of Laughing Hands?
Paul Widdicombe was an old friend of mine. I met Paul Schutze through someone I shared a house with - we went till the same college until both of us dropped out. We met Ian Stewart through a drummer we were jamming with.
What was your "role" in Laughing Hands? In an improvised collective did you even have "roles" per se?
It was very open. Everybody pretty much played everything and swapped gear. I mostly played bass, but also played keyboard, which was interesting since I had no clue what I was playing.
Your two records where released on your own label Adhesive, was it assumed that you would just self release your music? Did Adhesive release anything else?
Adhesive didn't release anything while I was involved. We weren't interested in developing the label, just releasing our own material.
Considering your involvement with the Clifton Hill Community Music Centre and improvisation, what was your relation to "punk"? Did you consider yourselves punk?
We definitely didn't consider ourselves punk, but we were very influenced by the punk ethos and many of the styles it launched. Before punk we were more influenced by German prog-rock, jazz-rock and European jazz, which essentially meant extended jam sessions. Punk and its offshoots inspired us with its directness and brevity. It made us realise you can say something with more clarity in a short track, and that electronic music didn't have to be self-indulgent. I remember Paul coming back from a trip to the UK with an album by This Heat, which for me at least turned everything upside down with its raw and varied sound.
What sort of shows did you play? Did you play beyond Melbourne?
We mostly played small gigs around Melbourne. At that time it seemed there were lots of venues that were open to new ideas and weren't too generic in their choices. We played at an arts festival in Sydney. After I left they supported the Cure in Melbourne.
Did the Laughing Hands sound evolve over time?
Certainly in my time the sound became tighter. The first album was slower and drowning in reverb, but under that post-punk influence we started having more fun, almost letting a pop influence creep in.
Both your albums were recorded at Latrobe University, how did you get access to their studios?
One of the Clifton Hill regulars was David Chesworth who if I remember, worked there or at least had a close involvement with them. They were very supportive of new independent music. The second album was in fact mostly recorded at Paul's and my house on a small four-track, and I think mixed at Latrobe.
Who/what was The Invisible College?
That was after I left. I think it was just Paul and Ian doing different stuff.
Laughing Hands appeared on the Masse Mensch compilation, released in Germany, alongside (now) seminal acts such Nurse With Wounds, Smegma and DDAA - where you aware of the contemporary musical developments outside of Australia?
Australia was always somewhat insulated at the time - It took a while for new music to find its way over. We would pick up what we could, which was probably pretty random. A little later specialist retailers started to import larger selections of material. I think the overseas scene was more aware of us that we were of them. We'd send albums to Germany and the UK and have no idea what happened to them, or, if I remember, the money.
What happened to the Vinyl on Demand box set collection of various Laughing Hands and Invisible College tape releases advertised? It seemingly disappeared from their website...
Not sure about that. I'm sure Paul could answer that question.
(Published in Negative Guest List, Issue #31, 2011)
How did you meet the other members of Laughing Hands?
Paul Widdicombe was an old friend of mine. I met Paul Schutze through someone I shared a house with - we went till the same college until both of us dropped out. We met Ian Stewart through a drummer we were jamming with.
What was your "role" in Laughing Hands? In an improvised collective did you even have "roles" per se?
It was very open. Everybody pretty much played everything and swapped gear. I mostly played bass, but also played keyboard, which was interesting since I had no clue what I was playing.
Your two records where released on your own label Adhesive, was it assumed that you would just self release your music? Did Adhesive release anything else?
Adhesive didn't release anything while I was involved. We weren't interested in developing the label, just releasing our own material.
Considering your involvement with the Clifton Hill Community Music Centre and improvisation, what was your relation to "punk"? Did you consider yourselves punk?
We definitely didn't consider ourselves punk, but we were very influenced by the punk ethos and many of the styles it launched. Before punk we were more influenced by German prog-rock, jazz-rock and European jazz, which essentially meant extended jam sessions. Punk and its offshoots inspired us with its directness and brevity. It made us realise you can say something with more clarity in a short track, and that electronic music didn't have to be self-indulgent. I remember Paul coming back from a trip to the UK with an album by This Heat, which for me at least turned everything upside down with its raw and varied sound.
What sort of shows did you play? Did you play beyond Melbourne?
We mostly played small gigs around Melbourne. At that time it seemed there were lots of venues that were open to new ideas and weren't too generic in their choices. We played at an arts festival in Sydney. After I left they supported the Cure in Melbourne.
Did the Laughing Hands sound evolve over time?
Certainly in my time the sound became tighter. The first album was slower and drowning in reverb, but under that post-punk influence we started having more fun, almost letting a pop influence creep in.
Both your albums were recorded at Latrobe University, how did you get access to their studios?
One of the Clifton Hill regulars was David Chesworth who if I remember, worked there or at least had a close involvement with them. They were very supportive of new independent music. The second album was in fact mostly recorded at Paul's and my house on a small four-track, and I think mixed at Latrobe.
Who/what was The Invisible College?
That was after I left. I think it was just Paul and Ian doing different stuff.
Laughing Hands appeared on the Masse Mensch compilation, released in Germany, alongside (now) seminal acts such Nurse With Wounds, Smegma and DDAA - where you aware of the contemporary musical developments outside of Australia?
Australia was always somewhat insulated at the time - It took a while for new music to find its way over. We would pick up what we could, which was probably pretty random. A little later specialist retailers started to import larger selections of material. I think the overseas scene was more aware of us that we were of them. We'd send albums to Germany and the UK and have no idea what happened to them, or, if I remember, the money.
What happened to the Vinyl on Demand box set collection of various Laughing Hands and Invisible College tape releases advertised? It seemingly disappeared from their website...
Not sure about that. I'm sure Paul could answer that question.
(Published in Negative Guest List, Issue #31, 2011)
Monday 21 November 2011
Monday 14 November 2011
Monday 31 October 2011
Friday 28 October 2011
Monday 24 October 2011
Sunday 16 October 2011
Tuesday 4 October 2011
Sunday 2 October 2011
Wednesday 21 September 2011
Tuesday 20 September 2011
Monday 19 September 2011
Monday 12 September 2011
Thursday 8 September 2011
Sunday 4 September 2011
Friday 2 September 2011
ARTO/NETO
"Imperfect Reflections" (Early version)
Arto/Neto - Pini, Pini b/w Malu
(12" Maxi-Single, Ze Records, 1978)
Whilst the power/ideas of some of the initial no-wave groups (ie. Lydia Lunch & James Chance’s outfits) has since been eroded – due in part to their aesthetic becoming a style in itself (ie. Lydia Lunch ended up pioneering an anti-style that became as standard as sped up Chuck Berry riffs…) among the undergrowth of the no-wave “discography” there still remains bizarre and unusual music. Possibly one of the more perplexing items (along with U.S. Millie, the final Mars EP, and the Boris Policeband 7") is the one-off collaboration between S. Neto (real name; Seth Tillet, artist/designer/early Contortions guitarist) & Arto Lindsay (DNA, Lounge Lizards etc.), "Arto/Neto" - "Pini, Pini", an oblique two track (four track?) single (EP?) recorded mid 1978.
The music itself, while strange, is not a radical departure for the two artists, Pini, Pini is seemingly...straight ahead (rhythmically speaking) foreshadowing Arto Lindsays later work as Ambitious Lovers; post-disco/pre-techno hi-hats loop (the lack of kick drum or any other rhythmic element undermining any potential as a dance floor "mutant disco" tune) over a fake-Jamaican spoken word - trademark Lindsay guitar outbursts intrude, but very sparingly and unpredictably. Malu is similar to what Lindsay was doing with DNA during that time, very out. Coming off like some lost track from New York In The 1960’s box, European Son style guitar scrapes away alongside/against a constant fiddle drone, not unlike a one-note hoedown ala Henry Flynt. Bass and drums (drum?) punch in like Angus Maclise sitting in on bongos (is that Ikue Mori and Tim Wright helping out?), but only barely (as if someone accidentally opened a door, then quickly closed it)
The artwork is pared back, in some ways more "uninformative" then the music; unassuming green text precisely centered against a background of unyielding, so bright as too be a little gross, yellow (1)
The front & back covers almost seem like a reflection of each other;
P I N I , PI N I
A R T O / N E T O
(flip the record)
M A L U
A R T O / N E T O
(Centered in the same position, as above)
While this style of design was standard for twelve inch singles of the time this particular release lacks any of the functional purposes that those twelve inches had (y'know a disco twelve inch is for dancing and better low end sound reproduction, what is this for? Beyond, "appreciating" that is...)
The very matter-of-factness becomes problematic; the information becomes deliberately obtuse - so simple it is frustrating;
"Recorded at Blank Tape Studio, NYC Aug. 1978, All words & music S. Neto & Arto Lindsay, Engineer Bob Blank"
Did they have too book studio time ahead? Was this the only document of a series of small collaborations between Tillman and Lindsay? Was this "written" in the studio?
Their (strange) choices in the track sequencing, side a is Pini, Pini then Malu - side b is Malu then Pini, Pini., raise questions about the interrelations between improvisation, composition and sound recording. If a highly frantic, free piece of music that contains nothing for the human ear to "grab" onto, so to speak - free of and/or against timing or repetition, is played to you two times in a row - does its inherent randomness mean that, even though you've listened too it twice in a row, your listening experience of it has been fresh each time - the one track can become two completely different tracks. Is it that on these two tracks Arto & Neto exploit the listeners brain & ears inability to perceive chaos & orderlessness? It brings to mind, though in an opposite way, Fred Friths comments on Don Van Vilets composition style on Trout Mask Replica (2); Vilets wrote highly structured compositions that, on first listening, seem to resemble improvised music - composition that sounds un-composed. It is poses an interesting approach to composition; if you record a composition (in the broadest sense of the word) twice, performing it as similarly as humanly possible each time, and you listen to them twice in a row, even though they are technically different, for all intensive purposes to your brain & ear, are they completely the same?
This release (unintentionally, intentionally, whatever) seems hinged on the idea of a mirror, of inverted reflections. While this is readily obvious in the artwork and the track listing (Side A is Pini, Pini then Malu. Side B is Malu then Pini, Pini.) The inversion/reflection is initially less obvious in the music. The two pieces (four pieces?) seem unrelated to each other, beyond the strangulated guitar work, though structurally they conform to reflection/inversion;
The first track is all voice and rhythm, barely any guitar - the second track is all guitar, no voice (beyond the random intonation of "Malu" in that stretched out Jamaican imitation), and no rhythm; the guitar thrashes away arhythmically. The role of the guitar in the first song is taken on by the voice in the second, and vice versa - their roles invert, they reflect. The aimless story of Pini touches upon a “man who played fiddle, another who play guitar,”, just like the instrumentation of the next track....Is Malu an imagined recreation of the two musicians in the story? is Pini, Pini & Malu a no-wave radio play - an exercise in abstracted non-narrative? Is Malu the bullcow? One of the musicians?
Arguably, given the integral nature of the artwork (the music is part and parcel with its packaging) the 12" comes across as a mass produced art edition masquerading as a music record, an audio-visual package. The seemingly bizarre choice to have this record released as a 12" instead of a 7" (given the short running time of the material, and the preference within "punk" circles of the 7" over the 12") suggests that, from the outset this was a conceptual vehicle. The increased size of the 12" format (over the 7") affords more space for the artwork; it just looks larger, there is more negative space, the text is even more isolated, the yellow more nauseating - the 12" becomes a print with an edition of commercial proportions(3).
Something about the deceptive simpleness of this release makes me believe that the conceptual inception of the whole project was probably impromptu; a casual idea that was inadvertently developed upon - possibly an innocent glance of the words ARTO / NETO on a piece of paper could have been the impetuous for the whole thing. Even the pseudo pornographic lyrics seem, uh, tossed off – a private joke that kept on running. The ongoing strength of this release is its open endedness. It still remains strange and alien - unanswerable.
Footnotes:
(1) There is a small logo; a plane with the text D/A - except the logo is crossed out; this logo in itself is another question mark.
(2) The exact quote, from an interview in the New Musical Express in 1974: 'It is always alarming to hear people playing together and yet not in any recognizable rhythmic pattern. This is not free music; it is completely controlled all the time, which is one of the reasons it's remarkable, forces that usually emerge in improvisation are harnessed and made constant, repeatable.')
(3) That said, contrary to this idea, Ze was in a habit of release maxi-12"s, the same year as this release they re-released the first (and ony) Mars 7" as a 12", the Rosa Yemen EP (itself a similarly strange 12", but the purpose is a little more clear)
(Published in Negative Guest List, Issue #29, 2011)
Monday 29 August 2011
Monday 22 August 2011
Tuesday 2 August 2011
Monday 1 August 2011
Thursday 28 July 2011
THE LIMP INTERVIEW
Interview with Tim McGee
Jarrod Zlatic: The Limp were from Newcastle, when exactly did The Limp form?
Tim McGee: I’m not entirely sure, it must have been mid 1979, the earliest recording I’ve got with a date on it is October ‘79 so I’d suspect probably the earliest we’d played would have been September ’79.
JZ: What was Newcastle like in the late 1970’s?
T: Well most of my friends who’d wound up in bands had either gone to university in Newcastle or teacher colleges…or were working in Newcastle and had just left high school… Newcastle was a fairly sort of a rough working class kind of town with a lot of rock and roll but it was mainly all pub rock which we would very rarely go and see, it was kind of the big suburban beer barns all through Newcastle, which had covers bands, the whole rock and roll culture was all covers bands but at the same time a lot of bands would come to Newcastle university and we’d seem them and we’d also go to Sydney very regularly to see international acts and Sydney acts.
JZ: What sort of international acts would you see?
T: I’d suppose when I was at high school we’d come down and see acts of the day y’know, people like Frank Zappa when he toured and Tom Waits…I mean we always had sort of taste which I suppose was out of the mainstream so it was more progressive kind of stuff at that time…and then when we’d left school punk had just started and we started listening to English and American punk music. We started coming to Sydney and going to pubs down here and little clubs to see those bands but in Newcastle there was absolutely none… even the university virtually didn’t tour any Australian punk bands…bigger ones like Radio Birdman only ever played once in Newcastle at a big art school ball…so we basically got the train down to Sydney as regularly as we could. That sort of led to Pel Mel starting, which was my sisters and friends band and that was in early 1979.
JZ: Was there much of a scene in Newcastle before you moved to Sydney?
T: No, there was none before Pel Mel, the scene was really just kind of…y’know bluesey kind of pub rock. There was really nothing. The main reason I suppose that Pel Mel formed was so we could go and have nights with a band playing really. As soon as Pel Mel formed we got hold of a room in a pub at the Grand Hotel in Newcastle which was this really tiny pub…It just had one little back room that was very rarely used, a kind of function room. We just used to set up the PA there on Friday nights and all our friends would come and eventually it grew and grew and grew and it was absolutely packed out and it became the only kind of real non-mainstream night in Newcastle in the late 1970’s.
JZ: After Pel Mel started doing stuff in Newcastle around that time and people started coming, did more bands start snowballing from there?
T: Not really, there was one other kind of…sort of quasi-new wave type band but we didn’t really kind of like them.
JZ: Was that the Swami Binton people?
T: No, that was long after. They were like the younger brothers of all my friends (laughs). No, there was this band X-Factor that started up that were like a new-wave covers band and they used to play in pubs and wear safety pins through their nose and stuff but it was pretty laughable but no…there was no other real bands. The reason The Limp began was that Pel Mel got sick of having to play all night as there was no support bands so they’d do three sets and they didn’t have enough songs so they’d have to do a lot covers and they were sick of being on stage all night with one bands repertoire, so my sisters and I and Dave Weston, who was the drummer of Pel Mel, formed this splinter band to support Pel Mel.
JZ: What sort of music was The Limp trying to emulate or taking points from?
T: I suppose Pel Mel were a bit more poppy and a bit more new wavey so from day one we were a bit more left of field…we would have been listening, by 1979, to post-punk stuff then, so it would’ve been all kind of English Factory records and American no-wave stuff.
JZ: I’ve seen set lists of yours and I noticed you did covers off No New York.
T: That was a really big album for us…especially for Mars, we were really hooked on that band. That super minimal, eerie sort of slightly alien sound that they get, scratchy guitar and tribal drumming…It was really the kind of early Limp sound really…that was the closest thing we’d ever heard to what we really liked playing around with.
JAMES VINCEGUERRA: How’d you come to hear that compilation?
T: Well I had it…we went out and bought it…we read reviews of it.
JV: So it was readily available?
T: Yeah. Every time we were in Sydney we would go immediately to import record shops and comb their racks and cart records back to Newcastle, people would give you money to buy records when you were in Sydney.
JZ: So I guess, even though I know you already said that nothing was going on in Newcastle at the time…why did you move from Newcastle to Sydney? Was there anything specifically why you decided to move?
T: Well it was really Pel Mel…I mean we would have moved anyway to get jobs, and once I finished university I was never going to stay in Newcastle but the reason the bands moved was because Pel Mel started to get interest outside of Newcastle and they got sick of playing The Grand and the art school and the university and the few other venues. Judy and Graeme [Dunne], who were the main sort of stays of Pel Mel, moved down to Sydney in 1980 and eventually, not long after, the rest of Pel Mel went down there and so The Limp was kind of on-hold for a while. Then I moved down there after a while, in the end of 1980, and we kept playing in Sydney. The main reason was Pel Mel were getting offers to play in Sydney pubs and record with Double JJ…and tour around and go to Melbourne and stuff like that – so they wanted to move to Sydney.
JZ: Before you moved to Sydney did you have much contact or awareness of what was going on in Sydney, the local scene there?
T: Yeah, because we’d been coming down a lot to go to The Grand Hotel and the Sussex and Fun House…then almost immediately we started coming to Sydney and playing places like that – this is a bit later on from that but …other kinds of pubs and clubs in Sydney, just coming down for one weekend and playing one gig and going back, we started to meet people and bands started to be put on our bills we started to meet and…by the time we moved down there we started to know people in other bands and I moved into a house with a whole bunch of people that wound up in those small band’s. Lindsay[O’Meara, of Voigt/465] who was later in Pel Mel and who was in a lot of those bands. Angie Plevey, she was very close friends with Phil Turnbull [of Voigt/465] and Gordon Renouf [The Slugfuckers] who was the bass player… I was living in Surry Hills, Dave was living in another house on Commonwealth Street, Judy and Graeme were living in Redfern, my sister Jane was living in Redfern too,..that was how it kind of happened.
JZ: Once you moved to Sydney…was there many people coming to your shows? What was the audience like?
T: The Limp were always supporting somebody so we would have been on either the bill with Pel Mel or the little bands like Wild West and The Dead Travel Fast and the Slugfuckers – so yeah there was an audience (laughs) you’d be surprised, the weirdo music scene was prospering. Some really big shows we played at the Parish Hall, would’ve been a couple of hundred people coming to that gig…Sideways, which was some kind of youth community centre, there was a very big show there with ten bands which would’ve been absolutely packed…There was quite an audience at that time for those kind of gigs
JZ: What was Primate Records? They released both the Limp and Pel Mel.
T: It was just us, it was just Judy and me
JZ: Did the 7”s sell well at the time?
T: I suppose we just sold out whatever it was we made – I don’t even remember – we used to go get them manufactured in those days – you could go to a record plant – you could actually take your tapes – I do remember going to get the singles mastered in Paddington and then you would take those stampers to this record plant and they would deliver to you 500 or a 1000 7”s in little paper sleeves and you’d stick them in the printed sleeves…it was real home industry sort of stuff but I’m sure it would have only been 500 or 1000 or a couple of thousand of a single
JZ: Couple of 1000 – that’s a lot…
T: Maybe it wasn’t that – maybe it was 500…
JZ: Just from reading things about that era – a lot of y’know, even no wave bands pressed up huge quantities of records compared to today. Did it seem like there was more of an audience?
T: People bought singles in those days and you could get them into record stores and we didn’t have a distributor – we’d just go around to the five stores in Australia that sold indie records and so there was one in Brisbane, three in Melbourne, three in Sydney, and one in Adelaide and one in Perth and that was it really. You had to get them there yourself so we had to mail them off to other states. Pel Mel used to go visit record shops when they were on tour and do interviews to promote it and that was all you did. Pel Mel only had that one single independent – once they got on Gap Records that was all done by the record company – they had EMI or someone distributing them..
JZ: Did Primate do anything except for those two 7”s?
T: No, that was just us putting out singles.
JZ: How important was Double JJ at the time for your listening habits?
T: Very, very important. We’d sort of been listening to Double JJ since it started…it’s completely different feel to what it is today – there’s a very fixed sound of the station but back in those days it was very DJ by DJ, seeming to have their completely own radio show and play list and so you just dispensed with two thirds of the DJ’s because you didn’t like what they played and you just listened to the shows that worked for you. They were also very important in that they did a lot of live to airs, and they did recording sessions –they recorded ‘No Word From China’ for Pel Mel – they did a live to air from Sydney uni with Pel Mel and they had recorded Radio Birdman and fantastic things we’d taped off the radio so they were a really big part of feeding into giving indie bands exposure. People like Stuart Matchett, who in those days was the young backroom radio producer, really slogged it out trying to find out and help bands like Pel Mel. They were a big influence and big help.
JZ: In Sydney, at the time, there was that big rock and rolly, Detroity, Radio Birdman thing and there was the more “arty” M-Squared scene, was there much interaction between the two?
T: Oh no, completely different worlds. I mean we’d gone to Radio Birdman gigs in Sydney and Newcastle, and Detroit bands used to tour – they were great and I’d love them but once we moved to Sydney…it was sort of the end of it by then…third generation Detroit bands were around and they weren’t as good and it had become a bit of a tough mainstream scene by that stage – Lipstick Killers and people like that. It wasn’t really the same thing anymore by the early 1980’s is my feeling. Maybe our tastes had moved on a bit as well. We were less Iggy Pop and more Talking Heads…and fashion changed so quickly in those days…Melbourne had this really good experimental culture…people like Tch Tch Tch, Clifton Hill stuff, Equal Local. Those bands where so out-there in their days – I remember the first time I had seen Equal Local play – I’ve never heard anything like this – it’s like a new genre being invented. Especially hearing it live…they could pull it off. Whirlywirld, I saw them once, I just didn’t know where it had come from. It was a whole bit of a lot of different things put in the one band.
JZ: I think the funny thing about Whirlywirld is that…Ollie Olsen used to work in a import record store in the 1970’s before punk…you can hear a lot of that German progressive stuff in it. People talk about punk being year zero but…
T: It never felt like that…a lot of the stuff you listened to before punk was even more relevant once punk had sort of happened and…you just didn’t go and abandon it all, abandon electronic music – it just wasn’t like it, it just kept on digging into that stuff and finding more and more, so on one hand you’d listen to screechy things like The Heartbreakers and the next record that’d go on the turntable was Neu! or Eno and Cluster.
JZ: In what ways did the Limp sound evolve over time?
T: Well…unlike someone like Pel Mel, because they were more song writing oriented, and more aiming for a wider audience and using good song writing and good playing, The Limp really just devolved where it suited us. Whatever the last thing that sounded interesting. The first era of The Limp with David Whittaker as the bas player, who was the non-bass player…was really just very, very, deliberately primitive no-wave, drone kind of rock music. Very quickly The Limp developed out of that into these kind of more open ended improvised sort of longer songs with just spiralling looping kind of playing and that’s the middle sort of era of The Limp I suppose…and then by the time we moved to Sydney and especially by the time we had gotten Graeme Dunne as the bass player we started doing funkier songs and more poppy …almost like a completely different band. If you go back to the beginning, Mars covers, and you compare it to the songs we recorded at Double J it’s like a different band – tight and funky and quite melodic. It was the evolution of the time I suppose.
JV: Can you tell me about how you, when you got to that final stage of The Limp - what happened leading up to you guys not making music anymore?
T: Well what really happened was that we’re all young and basically everyone was saving their money to go overseas, so one by one people went overseas and the final killing of The Limp was me going overseas. Glenn Nelson, who’d been in The Limp and had sung on the last line up of The Limp – and had also played keyboards for quite a while, he’d gone to England during 1982 and I was then the last person to go, my sister Jane had already gone long before that and so when I left…Pel Mel kept playing and put out their second album when I was overseas and so by the time I came back from overseas in 1984 there was no real interest in reforming or reviving it.
JV: I guess around that time a lot of those bands still were going, M Squared etc. How had the scene evolved – where was it at that point?
T: 1984? By 1984 it seemed like the smaller bands scene had fallen away a fair bit and Pel Mel were playing…they used to tour with Mondo Rock and people like that…and that was the next step up really in those days, kind of mainstream acts. The small bands in the inner city – there was much less of them and we were kind of less interested in them – there wasn’t as many of our friends playing around and the bands that were around weren’t as good and I was a bit jaded as I had been in London…so coming back here it seemed really kind of stale in comparison…it had probably peaked by certainly 1984 though Mitch and the guys at M Squared were still recording, I’m sure Scattered Order where still playing and those guys, we would’ve gone to gigs of theirs …all those long running bands that had gotten to a certain point where still around but the smaller ones had fallen away.
(Originally published in Mountain Fold magazine, Vol. 1, Is. 4 - 2010)
Jarrod Zlatic: The Limp were from Newcastle, when exactly did The Limp form?
Tim McGee: I’m not entirely sure, it must have been mid 1979, the earliest recording I’ve got with a date on it is October ‘79 so I’d suspect probably the earliest we’d played would have been September ’79.
JZ: What was Newcastle like in the late 1970’s?
T: Well most of my friends who’d wound up in bands had either gone to university in Newcastle or teacher colleges…or were working in Newcastle and had just left high school… Newcastle was a fairly sort of a rough working class kind of town with a lot of rock and roll but it was mainly all pub rock which we would very rarely go and see, it was kind of the big suburban beer barns all through Newcastle, which had covers bands, the whole rock and roll culture was all covers bands but at the same time a lot of bands would come to Newcastle university and we’d seem them and we’d also go to Sydney very regularly to see international acts and Sydney acts.
JZ: What sort of international acts would you see?
T: I’d suppose when I was at high school we’d come down and see acts of the day y’know, people like Frank Zappa when he toured and Tom Waits…I mean we always had sort of taste which I suppose was out of the mainstream so it was more progressive kind of stuff at that time…and then when we’d left school punk had just started and we started listening to English and American punk music. We started coming to Sydney and going to pubs down here and little clubs to see those bands but in Newcastle there was absolutely none… even the university virtually didn’t tour any Australian punk bands…bigger ones like Radio Birdman only ever played once in Newcastle at a big art school ball…so we basically got the train down to Sydney as regularly as we could. That sort of led to Pel Mel starting, which was my sisters and friends band and that was in early 1979.
JZ: Was there much of a scene in Newcastle before you moved to Sydney?
T: No, there was none before Pel Mel, the scene was really just kind of…y’know bluesey kind of pub rock. There was really nothing. The main reason I suppose that Pel Mel formed was so we could go and have nights with a band playing really. As soon as Pel Mel formed we got hold of a room in a pub at the Grand Hotel in Newcastle which was this really tiny pub…It just had one little back room that was very rarely used, a kind of function room. We just used to set up the PA there on Friday nights and all our friends would come and eventually it grew and grew and grew and it was absolutely packed out and it became the only kind of real non-mainstream night in Newcastle in the late 1970’s.
JZ: After Pel Mel started doing stuff in Newcastle around that time and people started coming, did more bands start snowballing from there?
T: Not really, there was one other kind of…sort of quasi-new wave type band but we didn’t really kind of like them.
JZ: Was that the Swami Binton people?
T: No, that was long after. They were like the younger brothers of all my friends (laughs). No, there was this band X-Factor that started up that were like a new-wave covers band and they used to play in pubs and wear safety pins through their nose and stuff but it was pretty laughable but no…there was no other real bands. The reason The Limp began was that Pel Mel got sick of having to play all night as there was no support bands so they’d do three sets and they didn’t have enough songs so they’d have to do a lot covers and they were sick of being on stage all night with one bands repertoire, so my sisters and I and Dave Weston, who was the drummer of Pel Mel, formed this splinter band to support Pel Mel.
JZ: What sort of music was The Limp trying to emulate or taking points from?
T: I suppose Pel Mel were a bit more poppy and a bit more new wavey so from day one we were a bit more left of field…we would have been listening, by 1979, to post-punk stuff then, so it would’ve been all kind of English Factory records and American no-wave stuff.
JZ: I’ve seen set lists of yours and I noticed you did covers off No New York.
T: That was a really big album for us…especially for Mars, we were really hooked on that band. That super minimal, eerie sort of slightly alien sound that they get, scratchy guitar and tribal drumming…It was really the kind of early Limp sound really…that was the closest thing we’d ever heard to what we really liked playing around with.
JAMES VINCEGUERRA: How’d you come to hear that compilation?
T: Well I had it…we went out and bought it…we read reviews of it.
JV: So it was readily available?
T: Yeah. Every time we were in Sydney we would go immediately to import record shops and comb their racks and cart records back to Newcastle, people would give you money to buy records when you were in Sydney.
JZ: So I guess, even though I know you already said that nothing was going on in Newcastle at the time…why did you move from Newcastle to Sydney? Was there anything specifically why you decided to move?
T: Well it was really Pel Mel…I mean we would have moved anyway to get jobs, and once I finished university I was never going to stay in Newcastle but the reason the bands moved was because Pel Mel started to get interest outside of Newcastle and they got sick of playing The Grand and the art school and the university and the few other venues. Judy and Graeme [Dunne], who were the main sort of stays of Pel Mel, moved down to Sydney in 1980 and eventually, not long after, the rest of Pel Mel went down there and so The Limp was kind of on-hold for a while. Then I moved down there after a while, in the end of 1980, and we kept playing in Sydney. The main reason was Pel Mel were getting offers to play in Sydney pubs and record with Double JJ…and tour around and go to Melbourne and stuff like that – so they wanted to move to Sydney.
JZ: Before you moved to Sydney did you have much contact or awareness of what was going on in Sydney, the local scene there?
T: Yeah, because we’d been coming down a lot to go to The Grand Hotel and the Sussex and Fun House…then almost immediately we started coming to Sydney and playing places like that – this is a bit later on from that but …other kinds of pubs and clubs in Sydney, just coming down for one weekend and playing one gig and going back, we started to meet people and bands started to be put on our bills we started to meet and…by the time we moved down there we started to know people in other bands and I moved into a house with a whole bunch of people that wound up in those small band’s. Lindsay[O’Meara, of Voigt/465] who was later in Pel Mel and who was in a lot of those bands. Angie Plevey, she was very close friends with Phil Turnbull [of Voigt/465] and Gordon Renouf [The Slugfuckers] who was the bass player… I was living in Surry Hills, Dave was living in another house on Commonwealth Street, Judy and Graeme were living in Redfern, my sister Jane was living in Redfern too,..that was how it kind of happened.
JZ: Once you moved to Sydney…was there many people coming to your shows? What was the audience like?
T: The Limp were always supporting somebody so we would have been on either the bill with Pel Mel or the little bands like Wild West and The Dead Travel Fast and the Slugfuckers – so yeah there was an audience (laughs) you’d be surprised, the weirdo music scene was prospering. Some really big shows we played at the Parish Hall, would’ve been a couple of hundred people coming to that gig…Sideways, which was some kind of youth community centre, there was a very big show there with ten bands which would’ve been absolutely packed…There was quite an audience at that time for those kind of gigs
JZ: What was Primate Records? They released both the Limp and Pel Mel.
T: It was just us, it was just Judy and me
JZ: Did the 7”s sell well at the time?
T: I suppose we just sold out whatever it was we made – I don’t even remember – we used to go get them manufactured in those days – you could go to a record plant – you could actually take your tapes – I do remember going to get the singles mastered in Paddington and then you would take those stampers to this record plant and they would deliver to you 500 or a 1000 7”s in little paper sleeves and you’d stick them in the printed sleeves…it was real home industry sort of stuff but I’m sure it would have only been 500 or 1000 or a couple of thousand of a single
JZ: Couple of 1000 – that’s a lot…
T: Maybe it wasn’t that – maybe it was 500…
JZ: Just from reading things about that era – a lot of y’know, even no wave bands pressed up huge quantities of records compared to today. Did it seem like there was more of an audience?
T: People bought singles in those days and you could get them into record stores and we didn’t have a distributor – we’d just go around to the five stores in Australia that sold indie records and so there was one in Brisbane, three in Melbourne, three in Sydney, and one in Adelaide and one in Perth and that was it really. You had to get them there yourself so we had to mail them off to other states. Pel Mel used to go visit record shops when they were on tour and do interviews to promote it and that was all you did. Pel Mel only had that one single independent – once they got on Gap Records that was all done by the record company – they had EMI or someone distributing them..
JZ: Did Primate do anything except for those two 7”s?
T: No, that was just us putting out singles.
JZ: How important was Double JJ at the time for your listening habits?
T: Very, very important. We’d sort of been listening to Double JJ since it started…it’s completely different feel to what it is today – there’s a very fixed sound of the station but back in those days it was very DJ by DJ, seeming to have their completely own radio show and play list and so you just dispensed with two thirds of the DJ’s because you didn’t like what they played and you just listened to the shows that worked for you. They were also very important in that they did a lot of live to airs, and they did recording sessions –they recorded ‘No Word From China’ for Pel Mel – they did a live to air from Sydney uni with Pel Mel and they had recorded Radio Birdman and fantastic things we’d taped off the radio so they were a really big part of feeding into giving indie bands exposure. People like Stuart Matchett, who in those days was the young backroom radio producer, really slogged it out trying to find out and help bands like Pel Mel. They were a big influence and big help.
JZ: In Sydney, at the time, there was that big rock and rolly, Detroity, Radio Birdman thing and there was the more “arty” M-Squared scene, was there much interaction between the two?
T: Oh no, completely different worlds. I mean we’d gone to Radio Birdman gigs in Sydney and Newcastle, and Detroit bands used to tour – they were great and I’d love them but once we moved to Sydney…it was sort of the end of it by then…third generation Detroit bands were around and they weren’t as good and it had become a bit of a tough mainstream scene by that stage – Lipstick Killers and people like that. It wasn’t really the same thing anymore by the early 1980’s is my feeling. Maybe our tastes had moved on a bit as well. We were less Iggy Pop and more Talking Heads…and fashion changed so quickly in those days…Melbourne had this really good experimental culture…people like Tch Tch Tch, Clifton Hill stuff, Equal Local. Those bands where so out-there in their days – I remember the first time I had seen Equal Local play – I’ve never heard anything like this – it’s like a new genre being invented. Especially hearing it live…they could pull it off. Whirlywirld, I saw them once, I just didn’t know where it had come from. It was a whole bit of a lot of different things put in the one band.
JZ: I think the funny thing about Whirlywirld is that…Ollie Olsen used to work in a import record store in the 1970’s before punk…you can hear a lot of that German progressive stuff in it. People talk about punk being year zero but…
T: It never felt like that…a lot of the stuff you listened to before punk was even more relevant once punk had sort of happened and…you just didn’t go and abandon it all, abandon electronic music – it just wasn’t like it, it just kept on digging into that stuff and finding more and more, so on one hand you’d listen to screechy things like The Heartbreakers and the next record that’d go on the turntable was Neu! or Eno and Cluster.
JZ: In what ways did the Limp sound evolve over time?
T: Well…unlike someone like Pel Mel, because they were more song writing oriented, and more aiming for a wider audience and using good song writing and good playing, The Limp really just devolved where it suited us. Whatever the last thing that sounded interesting. The first era of The Limp with David Whittaker as the bas player, who was the non-bass player…was really just very, very, deliberately primitive no-wave, drone kind of rock music. Very quickly The Limp developed out of that into these kind of more open ended improvised sort of longer songs with just spiralling looping kind of playing and that’s the middle sort of era of The Limp I suppose…and then by the time we moved to Sydney and especially by the time we had gotten Graeme Dunne as the bass player we started doing funkier songs and more poppy …almost like a completely different band. If you go back to the beginning, Mars covers, and you compare it to the songs we recorded at Double J it’s like a different band – tight and funky and quite melodic. It was the evolution of the time I suppose.
JV: Can you tell me about how you, when you got to that final stage of The Limp - what happened leading up to you guys not making music anymore?
T: Well what really happened was that we’re all young and basically everyone was saving their money to go overseas, so one by one people went overseas and the final killing of The Limp was me going overseas. Glenn Nelson, who’d been in The Limp and had sung on the last line up of The Limp – and had also played keyboards for quite a while, he’d gone to England during 1982 and I was then the last person to go, my sister Jane had already gone long before that and so when I left…Pel Mel kept playing and put out their second album when I was overseas and so by the time I came back from overseas in 1984 there was no real interest in reforming or reviving it.
JV: I guess around that time a lot of those bands still were going, M Squared etc. How had the scene evolved – where was it at that point?
T: 1984? By 1984 it seemed like the smaller bands scene had fallen away a fair bit and Pel Mel were playing…they used to tour with Mondo Rock and people like that…and that was the next step up really in those days, kind of mainstream acts. The small bands in the inner city – there was much less of them and we were kind of less interested in them – there wasn’t as many of our friends playing around and the bands that were around weren’t as good and I was a bit jaded as I had been in London…so coming back here it seemed really kind of stale in comparison…it had probably peaked by certainly 1984 though Mitch and the guys at M Squared were still recording, I’m sure Scattered Order where still playing and those guys, we would’ve gone to gigs of theirs …all those long running bands that had gotten to a certain point where still around but the smaller ones had fallen away.
(Originally published in Mountain Fold magazine, Vol. 1, Is. 4 - 2010)
Wednesday 27 July 2011
Friday 22 July 2011
Wednesday 20 July 2011
ROB JO STAR BAND INTERVIEW
Entrevue avec Michel Robert SAHUC aka "Mick" (Rob Jo Star Band)
Comment se sont rencontrés les Rob Jo Star Band ?
Notre rencontre se fera à « AréPop », un magasin de disques, ouvert par Alain POBLADOR alias "Penny, en Janvier 1973, dans la banlieue populaire du Sud de Montpellier. Alain POBLADOR, était un musicien originaire d’Avignon qui avait écumé lors des sixties les scènes musicales provençales. En effet, il avait déjà une grande expérience musicale et participait à des groupes de rock comme « the Blues Stars », « the Silvers Stars », « les Ombres », « the Beavers ». En 1971, Robert CASTELLO o et moi nous avons accompagné dans des happenings musicaux le chanteur poète beat Dominique OTTAVI et nous cherchions à créer un groupe. Grâce à nos centres d’intérêts musicaux communs, une rapide empathie va se créer entre nous, Roger VIDAL, un batteur originaire de Perpignan, Alain, Robert et moi. Le groupe prend sa première forme.
En juillet, nous faisons la connaissance, de Serge SOLER, un technicien électronicien et du son, passionné de musique électronique et électro-acoustique qui viendra s’adjoindre à notre groupe. Celui-ci va jouer un rôle important, grâce à la construction de générateurs de bruits qui sont incorporés dans une table de mixage qu’il va baptiser « Waves generators ». A présent ROB JO STAR BAND est au complet et son voyage en Underground peut commencer.
La scène underground française des années 1970 semble très active, qui ont été parmi, les artistes français, une source d'inspiration pour le groupe ?
Le Rock français et sa scène Underground est un cas particulier pour plusieurs raisons. Même si historiquement parlant le rock français est apparue en 1962, il ne percera comme phénomène de masse qu'à la fin des années 70. L'existence du service militaire obligatoire a sabordé la carrière de nombreux groupes. Les musiciens français étaient dominés par l’esprit technique et d’improvisation du par le Jazz et par les expressions musicales Post romantique et les expériences contemporaine. Ses tenants se sont questionnés pendant de longues années pour savoir si chanter en français était une atteinte à l'esprit rock. La production musicale française, n’étant pas favorable à cette expression artistique, de nombreux groupes et artistes ont dû choisir entre la reconversion dans la variété ou l’abandon de ce style. Mais que va cacher, chez les Froggies, ce concept très flou, d’underground musical? Il s’agit ici, d’une résistance artistique, en lien avec les contestations d’un ordre social étouffant. Face à la toute-puissance culturelle et économique d’un « système disques » laissant peu de choses filtrer de la « chape de plomb» des yéyés, de la chanson française de variété et du rock anglo-saxon, que va se développer une contre musique ignorée des mass media ou se mettant volontairement en marge du système. Celle-ci se fera en référence à la contre- culture anglo-américaine aussi bien qu’à celle plus spécifiquement française comme le situationnisme, la Pataphysique et des revendications politiques et sociétales libertaires et gauchistes soixante-huitardes. L'histoire de la musique underground française, commencé en 1969, est surtout parisienne avec la formation de groupes créés pour la plupart par d’anciens accompagnateurs de chanteurs de variétés et des musiciens de studio. Le rock français se subdivise musicalement en styles différentes. Une branche, inspiré des modèles anglo-saxons, d’abord « Hard’n’Heavy » puis du courant Rock Progressif représentés par des groupes comme MOVING GELATINE PLATES, ERGO SUM, ALICE et CATHARSIS. L’autre courant est "underground" ou musique actuelle mélange déroutant avec délire, de paroles surréalistes, de rock, de free jazz comme GONG (le groupe d u beatnik australien Deavid Allen), AME SON, etc. Ceux-ci sont souvent politiquement engagé protestataire, avec des groupes tels que RED NOISE, KOMINTERN, MAAJUN, et les BARRRRICADES I, II (les futurs membres de Z'n'R). La première particularité musicale française va surgir en 1970 avec la sortie de l'album double de MAGMA, un groupe dont la musique, le mode d'expression, l'apparence, et la marque les distinguent de tous les autres groupes de l'époque. Sa musique est un mélange de Rock, de Jazz (Coltrane), de musique Sérielle (Igor Stravinski), il créer un langage, « le Kobaïen » et une école le « ZEUHL ». De nombreux groupe vont en devenir les disciples. Bien que moins Underground, ANGE constitué le deuxième événement qui a perturbé la scène rock français. Il va synthétiser des éléments de rocks Progressif symphoniques (GENESIS) avec la chanson à texte francophone (Jacques BREL). Dans son sillage va se créer toute une école de groupes inspirés par leurs idées musicales et théâtrales.
En 1973, nous étions en pleine période de Glam rock, que l’on appelait alors aussi Rock décadent. Les influences du RO JO STAR BAND comprenaient avant tout, le VELVET UNDERGROUND, David BOWIE, Lou REED, mais aussi le rock Psychédélique de HAWKWIND, ou le Krautrock de CAN, AMOND DULL II, AGITATION FREE. Notre philosophie musicale était de revenir à la source d’un rock psychédélique simple à la fois soft out Trash mais avec des sonorités expérimentales électro acoustique et des textes plus Stoned. Revenir à une musique populaire, jouissive et provocatrice, loin des sophistications et des technicités du Rock Progressif et de l’Underground français qui se tournaient alors vers les expériences, free Jazz, Canterburyennes ou Zappiennes, le British pop, le Prog Symphonique ou même la chanson française et parfois même le bal musette.
A la problématique du choix de la langue dans laquelle nous devons chanter, anglais, français, Kobaïen ou Volapük. Notre choix se porta vers, le « Yaourt », c’est-à-dire en anglais mais sans chercher à cacher notre ascendance française, ni cacher l’accent méridional ou exclure totalement le français. L'accent français doit être si fort, que vos oreilles doivent être comme remplis de Pélardon fondu. (* fromage au lait de brebis du Languedoc)
La seule touche réellement française se situe dans l’utilisation, par Serge Soler, de générateurs de bruits (Waves Generators) dans le style french Electroacoustic music de l’IRCAM (l'Institut de recherche et coordination acoustique/musique) et des compositeurs comme Pierre SCHAEFFER, Pierre HENRI, Bernard PARMEGIANI…
L’album Rob Jo Star Band est une espèce d’OVNI Musical ou le « Velvet Underground » aurait rencontré « Pierre Henri » afin de créer une «Messe pour le Temps présent » pour les désaxés, ou les junkys.
Qui était le label Dom qui réalise l'album de Rob Jo Star band?
Fondée en 1971 par d'anciens membres de la maison de disques VOGUE, le label Disques Dom se spécialise ensuite dans les domaines de la musique du monde et du patrimoine français puis de la musique classique. Ce petit label enregistrera EN 1979, le groupe de folk progressif franco-arménien "ZARTONG".
Comment êtes-vous parvenu à éditer votre album ?
L’idée de faire un album, fut d’abord un projet d’Alain qui voulait transmettre ses idées musicales et son plaisir de la création. Mais, il semblait naturel, dans une époque où l’on pouvait conserver la musique sur un support audio, que l’enregistrement d’un album soit nécessaire afin de laisser une trace, comme auparavant, les auteurs compositeurs, conservaient leur travail en le transcrivant sur des partitions.
En octobre et novembre 1973 pendant nos répétitions, des Labels, s’intéressent à notre groupe. En premier, un dandy de RCA, qui semblait plus séduit par le physique des musiciens que par leur musique, ensuite CBS qui emportera une bande de démos mais sans suite. Le Troisième fut DOM, qui s’engagera à produire un Album LP 33t de 40 minutes de musique environ.
Sur votre site Web, il est notifié que le LP Rob Jo Star Band a été pressé deux fois, une fois en 1973, et une fois en 1975 - pour le groupe obscur d’ aujourd'hui quelle fut la popularité de votre enregistrement en France à l'époque ?
En effet, Je dois m’expliquer sur ces dates. Bien que l’ensemble des morceaux furent composés et les démos enregistrées dans l’année 73, l’album ne fut enregistré à Marignane (banlieue de Marseille) que les 28 et 29 Mars 1974. Le LP Vinyle fut donc édité le 1 juin 1974 comme le confirme, le magazine « Rock en Folk » du 6 juin dans ces télégrammes et non le 6 juin 1973 comme je l’ai noté par erreur (date des démos). Il fut pressé à 1500 exemplaires sous le label DOM, réf. D. 3.001 U.
Par la suite, les contacts avec le Label DOM ont été rompu, car, ni Robert et moi, avions signé le contrat de cession et d’édition d’œuvre musicale. En effet, nous n’étions pas d’accord avec certaines des closes.
Nous n’avions, donc, eu aucun retour sur les ventes du LP (à l’exception de ceux que nous vendions à la sortie de nos concerts), et n’avons jamais rien touché, ni en royaltie, ni en droit d’auteur.
Si le LP fut réédité, cela signifie logiquement, que la première édition avait due bien ce vendre. Bien plus tard, nous avons appris que le DJ du Gibus, le temple du rock underground Parisien avait l’habitude de souvent passer entre les années 1974 – 1977 des morceaux du RJSB, en particulier « Loving Machine ».
Mais à l’époque du groupe nous n’avons jamais été au courant de ce fait.
Ce n’est que vers 1999, que notre " album a fait récemment l'objet d’un important battage chez les concessionnaires de LP Records." Comme le signale le spécialiste norvégien de Rock Progressif, Dag Erik Asbjørnsen, dans son ouvrage « Scented Gardens of Mind: A Comprehensive Guide to the Golden Era of Progressive Rock (1968-1980) », édité par Borderline Productions en 2000. Mais celui-ci n’en précise pas la date, qui est noté 197 ?
A la suite de nos recherches sur la raison de la présence sur un grand nombre de sites de vente de LP Vinyl, de 1975 en date d’édition, nous avons découvert que DOM devenu le label Dom 2 avait alors réédité 1000 disques, sous le code D. 3001.
Est-ce que le Rob Jo Star Band a enregistré d’autre chose en dehors de votre album ?
En tant que RJSB, nous n’avons rien d’autre d’édité. Cependant, nous avons bien enregistré une démo de deux morceaux en Français, « La Cigale » et « le Démon du Rythme » qui intéressait alors Pathé, mais cela ne s’est pas concrétisé.
Quelle et comment était la scène underground à Montpellier ?
Á l’époque Montpellier c’était la désolation, un vrai désert pour le Rock et les musiques alternatives, seuls quelques musiciens de bal, comme Gérard Pansanel ou les frères Azéma se tourneront vers le Jazz.
L’apogée musicale sur la ville, c’était la rumba catalane, celles de Manitas de Plata (Ricardo Baliardo), de son frère Hyppolite et de la famille Baliardo.
Il y avait eu aussi en fin 1969, début 1970, un éphémère groupe de Jazz Rock du nom de « Vélo Rouge ».
Pendant la période RJSB (1973 - 1974), nous n’avons eu de contact qu’avec un seul groupe Montpelliérain. Il s’appelait « Préhistoire » et jouait un prog symphonique typiquement français assez proche d’ « Ange ». Mais à ma connaissance, ils n’ont rien enregistré.
En réalité, nous fûmes le premier groupe de Rock à publier un disque sur cette capitale régionale universitaire de cette région de la France méridionale.
Puis un peu plus tard, en 1975, alors que nous avions pris le nom de « Keust », Pascal Comelade a sorti, sur le Label Pôle son premier LP « Fluence ». C’est une musique électronique répétitive, à l’aide de boucles influencé par Terry Riley. En invité sur un titre, on note la présence du Guitariste et compositeur d’HELDON, Richard PINHAS.
Cette même année, les frères Jean-Pierre et Jean-Claude Llabador vont créer le groupe de Jazz Rock « Coïncidence ».
En conclusion :
Comme une majorité des groupes français ROB JO STAR BAND, ne sera qu’une étoile filante. Le départ de Robert « Chris » pour le service militaire obligatoire, la peur de s’engager dans un projet qui devenait sérieux et l’indécision des uns et des autres, vont déterminer le sabordage du groupe en août 1974. C’est cette brève existence vat créé, au fils du temps, notre légende de l’un des Groupes Undergrounds, les plus énigmatiques de France. Cela explique que l’on retrouve souvent sur le net, la mention suivante à notre sujet : - « Même parmi les spécialistes européens de rock psychédélique, Rob Jo Star band, un seul LP, est quelque peu une énigme ».
Cependant en 1975, nous allons continuer à quatre, Roger à la batterie, Serge passé au synthé, Alain aux guitares et aux chants ainsi que moi toujours à la basse, sous l’appellation de « Keust ». Celui-ci prendra rapidement fin à son tour en fin 1975.
Par la suite, je suis le seul à avoir continué de 1976 à 1977 comme bassiste et Ondeline player au sein du Groupe « Emercency Exit », puis « Emergency », avec lequel j’ai enregistré sous le pseudonyme de « Miguel ANGULO » le LP Vinyle, « Sortie de secours » sur le Label Pôle Records, réf. Pôle 0015.
Aux noms de l’ensemble des membres du ROB JO STAR BAND, je remercie tous ce qui aime notre musique et les assure de toute notre amitié underground.
(Version anglaise de cette entrevue disponible dans l'issue prochaine de Negative Guest List)
Comment se sont rencontrés les Rob Jo Star Band ?
Notre rencontre se fera à « AréPop », un magasin de disques, ouvert par Alain POBLADOR alias "Penny, en Janvier 1973, dans la banlieue populaire du Sud de Montpellier. Alain POBLADOR, était un musicien originaire d’Avignon qui avait écumé lors des sixties les scènes musicales provençales. En effet, il avait déjà une grande expérience musicale et participait à des groupes de rock comme « the Blues Stars », « the Silvers Stars », « les Ombres », « the Beavers ». En 1971, Robert CASTELLO o et moi nous avons accompagné dans des happenings musicaux le chanteur poète beat Dominique OTTAVI et nous cherchions à créer un groupe. Grâce à nos centres d’intérêts musicaux communs, une rapide empathie va se créer entre nous, Roger VIDAL, un batteur originaire de Perpignan, Alain, Robert et moi. Le groupe prend sa première forme.
En juillet, nous faisons la connaissance, de Serge SOLER, un technicien électronicien et du son, passionné de musique électronique et électro-acoustique qui viendra s’adjoindre à notre groupe. Celui-ci va jouer un rôle important, grâce à la construction de générateurs de bruits qui sont incorporés dans une table de mixage qu’il va baptiser « Waves generators ». A présent ROB JO STAR BAND est au complet et son voyage en Underground peut commencer.
La scène underground française des années 1970 semble très active, qui ont été parmi, les artistes français, une source d'inspiration pour le groupe ?
Le Rock français et sa scène Underground est un cas particulier pour plusieurs raisons. Même si historiquement parlant le rock français est apparue en 1962, il ne percera comme phénomène de masse qu'à la fin des années 70. L'existence du service militaire obligatoire a sabordé la carrière de nombreux groupes. Les musiciens français étaient dominés par l’esprit technique et d’improvisation du par le Jazz et par les expressions musicales Post romantique et les expériences contemporaine. Ses tenants se sont questionnés pendant de longues années pour savoir si chanter en français était une atteinte à l'esprit rock. La production musicale française, n’étant pas favorable à cette expression artistique, de nombreux groupes et artistes ont dû choisir entre la reconversion dans la variété ou l’abandon de ce style. Mais que va cacher, chez les Froggies, ce concept très flou, d’underground musical? Il s’agit ici, d’une résistance artistique, en lien avec les contestations d’un ordre social étouffant. Face à la toute-puissance culturelle et économique d’un « système disques » laissant peu de choses filtrer de la « chape de plomb» des yéyés, de la chanson française de variété et du rock anglo-saxon, que va se développer une contre musique ignorée des mass media ou se mettant volontairement en marge du système. Celle-ci se fera en référence à la contre- culture anglo-américaine aussi bien qu’à celle plus spécifiquement française comme le situationnisme, la Pataphysique et des revendications politiques et sociétales libertaires et gauchistes soixante-huitardes. L'histoire de la musique underground française, commencé en 1969, est surtout parisienne avec la formation de groupes créés pour la plupart par d’anciens accompagnateurs de chanteurs de variétés et des musiciens de studio. Le rock français se subdivise musicalement en styles différentes. Une branche, inspiré des modèles anglo-saxons, d’abord « Hard’n’Heavy » puis du courant Rock Progressif représentés par des groupes comme MOVING GELATINE PLATES, ERGO SUM, ALICE et CATHARSIS. L’autre courant est "underground" ou musique actuelle mélange déroutant avec délire, de paroles surréalistes, de rock, de free jazz comme GONG (le groupe d u beatnik australien Deavid Allen), AME SON, etc. Ceux-ci sont souvent politiquement engagé protestataire, avec des groupes tels que RED NOISE, KOMINTERN, MAAJUN, et les BARRRRICADES I, II (les futurs membres de Z'n'R). La première particularité musicale française va surgir en 1970 avec la sortie de l'album double de MAGMA, un groupe dont la musique, le mode d'expression, l'apparence, et la marque les distinguent de tous les autres groupes de l'époque. Sa musique est un mélange de Rock, de Jazz (Coltrane), de musique Sérielle (Igor Stravinski), il créer un langage, « le Kobaïen » et une école le « ZEUHL ». De nombreux groupe vont en devenir les disciples. Bien que moins Underground, ANGE constitué le deuxième événement qui a perturbé la scène rock français. Il va synthétiser des éléments de rocks Progressif symphoniques (GENESIS) avec la chanson à texte francophone (Jacques BREL). Dans son sillage va se créer toute une école de groupes inspirés par leurs idées musicales et théâtrales.
En 1973, nous étions en pleine période de Glam rock, que l’on appelait alors aussi Rock décadent. Les influences du RO JO STAR BAND comprenaient avant tout, le VELVET UNDERGROUND, David BOWIE, Lou REED, mais aussi le rock Psychédélique de HAWKWIND, ou le Krautrock de CAN, AMOND DULL II, AGITATION FREE. Notre philosophie musicale était de revenir à la source d’un rock psychédélique simple à la fois soft out Trash mais avec des sonorités expérimentales électro acoustique et des textes plus Stoned. Revenir à une musique populaire, jouissive et provocatrice, loin des sophistications et des technicités du Rock Progressif et de l’Underground français qui se tournaient alors vers les expériences, free Jazz, Canterburyennes ou Zappiennes, le British pop, le Prog Symphonique ou même la chanson française et parfois même le bal musette.
A la problématique du choix de la langue dans laquelle nous devons chanter, anglais, français, Kobaïen ou Volapük. Notre choix se porta vers, le « Yaourt », c’est-à-dire en anglais mais sans chercher à cacher notre ascendance française, ni cacher l’accent méridional ou exclure totalement le français. L'accent français doit être si fort, que vos oreilles doivent être comme remplis de Pélardon fondu. (* fromage au lait de brebis du Languedoc)
La seule touche réellement française se situe dans l’utilisation, par Serge Soler, de générateurs de bruits (Waves Generators) dans le style french Electroacoustic music de l’IRCAM (l'Institut de recherche et coordination acoustique/musique) et des compositeurs comme Pierre SCHAEFFER, Pierre HENRI, Bernard PARMEGIANI…
L’album Rob Jo Star Band est une espèce d’OVNI Musical ou le « Velvet Underground » aurait rencontré « Pierre Henri » afin de créer une «Messe pour le Temps présent » pour les désaxés, ou les junkys.
Qui était le label Dom qui réalise l'album de Rob Jo Star band?
Fondée en 1971 par d'anciens membres de la maison de disques VOGUE, le label Disques Dom se spécialise ensuite dans les domaines de la musique du monde et du patrimoine français puis de la musique classique. Ce petit label enregistrera EN 1979, le groupe de folk progressif franco-arménien "ZARTONG".
Comment êtes-vous parvenu à éditer votre album ?
L’idée de faire un album, fut d’abord un projet d’Alain qui voulait transmettre ses idées musicales et son plaisir de la création. Mais, il semblait naturel, dans une époque où l’on pouvait conserver la musique sur un support audio, que l’enregistrement d’un album soit nécessaire afin de laisser une trace, comme auparavant, les auteurs compositeurs, conservaient leur travail en le transcrivant sur des partitions.
En octobre et novembre 1973 pendant nos répétitions, des Labels, s’intéressent à notre groupe. En premier, un dandy de RCA, qui semblait plus séduit par le physique des musiciens que par leur musique, ensuite CBS qui emportera une bande de démos mais sans suite. Le Troisième fut DOM, qui s’engagera à produire un Album LP 33t de 40 minutes de musique environ.
Sur votre site Web, il est notifié que le LP Rob Jo Star Band a été pressé deux fois, une fois en 1973, et une fois en 1975 - pour le groupe obscur d’ aujourd'hui quelle fut la popularité de votre enregistrement en France à l'époque ?
En effet, Je dois m’expliquer sur ces dates. Bien que l’ensemble des morceaux furent composés et les démos enregistrées dans l’année 73, l’album ne fut enregistré à Marignane (banlieue de Marseille) que les 28 et 29 Mars 1974. Le LP Vinyle fut donc édité le 1 juin 1974 comme le confirme, le magazine « Rock en Folk » du 6 juin dans ces télégrammes et non le 6 juin 1973 comme je l’ai noté par erreur (date des démos). Il fut pressé à 1500 exemplaires sous le label DOM, réf. D. 3.001 U.
Par la suite, les contacts avec le Label DOM ont été rompu, car, ni Robert et moi, avions signé le contrat de cession et d’édition d’œuvre musicale. En effet, nous n’étions pas d’accord avec certaines des closes.
Nous n’avions, donc, eu aucun retour sur les ventes du LP (à l’exception de ceux que nous vendions à la sortie de nos concerts), et n’avons jamais rien touché, ni en royaltie, ni en droit d’auteur.
Si le LP fut réédité, cela signifie logiquement, que la première édition avait due bien ce vendre. Bien plus tard, nous avons appris que le DJ du Gibus, le temple du rock underground Parisien avait l’habitude de souvent passer entre les années 1974 – 1977 des morceaux du RJSB, en particulier « Loving Machine ».
Mais à l’époque du groupe nous n’avons jamais été au courant de ce fait.
Ce n’est que vers 1999, que notre " album a fait récemment l'objet d’un important battage chez les concessionnaires de LP Records." Comme le signale le spécialiste norvégien de Rock Progressif, Dag Erik Asbjørnsen, dans son ouvrage « Scented Gardens of Mind: A Comprehensive Guide to the Golden Era of Progressive Rock (1968-1980) », édité par Borderline Productions en 2000. Mais celui-ci n’en précise pas la date, qui est noté 197 ?
A la suite de nos recherches sur la raison de la présence sur un grand nombre de sites de vente de LP Vinyl, de 1975 en date d’édition, nous avons découvert que DOM devenu le label Dom 2 avait alors réédité 1000 disques, sous le code D. 3001.
Est-ce que le Rob Jo Star Band a enregistré d’autre chose en dehors de votre album ?
En tant que RJSB, nous n’avons rien d’autre d’édité. Cependant, nous avons bien enregistré une démo de deux morceaux en Français, « La Cigale » et « le Démon du Rythme » qui intéressait alors Pathé, mais cela ne s’est pas concrétisé.
Quelle et comment était la scène underground à Montpellier ?
Á l’époque Montpellier c’était la désolation, un vrai désert pour le Rock et les musiques alternatives, seuls quelques musiciens de bal, comme Gérard Pansanel ou les frères Azéma se tourneront vers le Jazz.
L’apogée musicale sur la ville, c’était la rumba catalane, celles de Manitas de Plata (Ricardo Baliardo), de son frère Hyppolite et de la famille Baliardo.
Il y avait eu aussi en fin 1969, début 1970, un éphémère groupe de Jazz Rock du nom de « Vélo Rouge ».
Pendant la période RJSB (1973 - 1974), nous n’avons eu de contact qu’avec un seul groupe Montpelliérain. Il s’appelait « Préhistoire » et jouait un prog symphonique typiquement français assez proche d’ « Ange ». Mais à ma connaissance, ils n’ont rien enregistré.
En réalité, nous fûmes le premier groupe de Rock à publier un disque sur cette capitale régionale universitaire de cette région de la France méridionale.
Puis un peu plus tard, en 1975, alors que nous avions pris le nom de « Keust », Pascal Comelade a sorti, sur le Label Pôle son premier LP « Fluence ». C’est une musique électronique répétitive, à l’aide de boucles influencé par Terry Riley. En invité sur un titre, on note la présence du Guitariste et compositeur d’HELDON, Richard PINHAS.
Cette même année, les frères Jean-Pierre et Jean-Claude Llabador vont créer le groupe de Jazz Rock « Coïncidence ».
En conclusion :
Comme une majorité des groupes français ROB JO STAR BAND, ne sera qu’une étoile filante. Le départ de Robert « Chris » pour le service militaire obligatoire, la peur de s’engager dans un projet qui devenait sérieux et l’indécision des uns et des autres, vont déterminer le sabordage du groupe en août 1974. C’est cette brève existence vat créé, au fils du temps, notre légende de l’un des Groupes Undergrounds, les plus énigmatiques de France. Cela explique que l’on retrouve souvent sur le net, la mention suivante à notre sujet : - « Même parmi les spécialistes européens de rock psychédélique, Rob Jo Star band, un seul LP, est quelque peu une énigme ».
Cependant en 1975, nous allons continuer à quatre, Roger à la batterie, Serge passé au synthé, Alain aux guitares et aux chants ainsi que moi toujours à la basse, sous l’appellation de « Keust ». Celui-ci prendra rapidement fin à son tour en fin 1975.
Par la suite, je suis le seul à avoir continué de 1976 à 1977 comme bassiste et Ondeline player au sein du Groupe « Emercency Exit », puis « Emergency », avec lequel j’ai enregistré sous le pseudonyme de « Miguel ANGULO » le LP Vinyle, « Sortie de secours » sur le Label Pôle Records, réf. Pôle 0015.
Aux noms de l’ensemble des membres du ROB JO STAR BAND, je remercie tous ce qui aime notre musique et les assure de toute notre amitié underground.
(Version anglaise de cette entrevue disponible dans l'issue prochaine de Negative Guest List)
Monday 18 July 2011
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